This month we’ll be talking with letterer and designer Corey Breen. Corey has lettered a variety of titles for numerous publishers including DC Comics (Batman Overdrive, Teen Titans, Doomed, Firestorm), Boom! Studios (Bravest Warriors, Fraggle Rock), IDW (Samurai Jack, Sonic) and AfterShock Comics (The Normals). He is currently doing more design than lettering, especially for AfterShock as their Book Designer and Collections Production.
Corey, you were a fixture in the NYC DC Comics offices as a senior pre-press artist and one of the first folks I got to know in my time there. Always full of enthusiasm and excited about comics. You were lettering for awhile and then took a job outside of comics, but now you’re back and designing books. Where have you been and are you returning to comics full time?!
First of all, hi Steve, it’s really great to talk with you again! As to your question, you got most of that right, but it’s way more complicated then that. To really get into what I’m doing now, to me at least, is a much longer story. One that I actually like telling, though. I do get a bit long winded though, so please feel free to reign me in.
I started my career in comics after college. Scratch that, I actually interned at DC Comics in their Production department my senior year of college (Syracuse University’s College of Visual and Performing Arts, BA in Illustration). They liked me a lot, and actually wanted me to stay, but I went back to finish my senior year and graduated. I kept in touch with them and a couple months after graduation, they hired me full time. I worked on covers in the Production Department but made it known I wanted to be in the bullpen working on the books themselves, doing art and lettering corrections. This was back in 2000-2001. I made that switch and I knew immediately that I was where I wanted to be. We still did everything by hand then. We did art corrections on the real boards sent in by the artists of each book. We did hand lettering corrections over hand lettering as well. The key was to always match the style of the artist and letterer and make it seem that it had always been that way, not knowing we had changed anything, even though we did. The process was really cool actually, but time consuming. Comicraft was just getting started and was really the only one doing computer lettering then. They would send in their final files though a hard copy and we would cut them out and paste them on the boards. Everything was still done manually up until about 2004, I think. Marvel had started digital lettering before we switched over, but we adapted at DC, and started doing everything on the computer in Adobe, no longer on the boards. Anyway, back to me (hah ha). I worked with some incredibly talented people over the years, including yourself, and eventually DC created their own lettering department, of which you joined with the likes of Rob Leigh, Pat Brosseau, Jared Fletcher, Phil Balsman and Rob Clark (sorry if I missed anyone). I really thought about joining, especially later on when Sal Cipriano, Taylor Esposito, Carlos Mangual, Dezi Sienty, and others came aboard. It was a really great group of people. But my love was always art first, so I stayed in Pre-Press, where I still got to do lots of lettering anyway, mostly corrections for the lettering department when it came time to put the books together.
After 13 years at DC Comics though, a lot more things came into play where a life in the comic book industry became more difficult. As you know, the pay was not really great, Manhattan was beyond expensive, I got married, moved to Queens then Long Island where the commute got really tough, too. The financial crisis hit and my wife lost her job and we had my first son, Tyler. It became clear that we had to really evaluate our life and every aspect of it. I had asked DC for a promotion again and when I didn’t get one, I had to make a difficult choice to follow my wife’s career to another state, leaving a job I loved. Most difficult decision of my life. I moved to Virginia with my wife, Kristy, Tyler and three cats and became a stay-at-home-dad until I could find something down there. I reached out to all my contacts I left DC with, like Rob Leigh and, well, you. Rob hooked me up BIG TIME with some indy creators who needed production work and design. I also found a small company called Paradigm Press (now defunct) which I did my first lettering gig, which I’m still really proud of to this day. You hooked me up with Boom Studios and Bravest Warriors. That was what really got me going.
But as I started these freelance jobs (I couldn’t work with DC again yet, for their policy was that I had to wait a full year from leaving to do any work for them again), I realized that doing that and caring for my son was really not doing it for me. It just wasn’t enough. I missed having a day-to-day job. The daily grind of freelancing, finding work, doing your own marketing, sending emails trying to find more work so that I could make a living at it was really tough. So I started looking for full time jobs as well. I knew I could take my time doing that because I was getting steady comic work and I didn’t want to just take any job just to have a job again. Especially since I was used to working for one company for 13 years with DC Comics. I’m a loyal person and not one to jump around from job to job. If I was to go back to full time work, it had to be something really good and really worth it.
Well, I got a job in finance. Yes, finance. And before you say anything, yes, i know it’s strange. But hear me out. I had a recruiter contact me and said she found a company that needed a designer and I should think about interviewing with them. She told me it was in finance, and although I had a couple of siblings in finance at times, it was a strange idea for me to go into it. But I took the interview anyway, keeping an open mind, mainly because I know that every company needs a designer and design in that sense is universal. Long story short (too late, I know) the interview went fantastic. They decided to take a chance on me, and I decided to take a chance on them. Honestly though, I had no idea what I was getting into. It was actually pretty brilliant on their end though, which is why they are such a great company. They said, ‘you handle all the design work we need, we’ll teach you the finance world’. They were basically thinking outside the box in hiring an artist who they could use for their needs despite me not being from their field. It was tough though, I started the job and went through a really rigorous, four month training process, learning everything I could possibly learn about finance. I was working til 8, 9, sometimes 10pm for about a year. It was big learning curve but paid off because it’s an awesome job and am still there, six years later! I’m a one-man design department for the entire firm and I work on numerous projects that are really fulfilling as a designer and an artist. All the while, I was still working in comics! I freelanced comic work on nights and weekends. I worked a full 8-9 hours at my full time job and then I would go home and letter books from about 9pm to 1, 2am in the morning. Then work some on weekends. I was a machine. You know me, Steve, so you know my work ethic.
That is what I continue to do still to this day, but have gotten better at managing my time and finding a better work/life balance. I’ve been doing less lettering this year, so that is one reason. I thinking lettering is so much more taxing on the mind and body because of the tight deadlines, faster turn-arounds, and skill involved.
So to answer your question, I never actually left comics. I just quietly worked my ass off and basically what I do now is work two full time jobs.
You’ve been a pre-press artist, letterer, and designer. Do you think your background in pre-press has had an impact on how you approach lettering, or design?
Oh, for sure. Definitely. I think it’s really important to know every aspect of making a comic book, even if you don’t have the skills to do each part of it. I hear Taylor talk about it a lot on Twitter actually, and I totally agree. He always says that writers should really try to letter a book, or look over their letterer’s shoulder sometime. They need to understand how it works, and I think that applies to every aspect of comics. I think you remember me at DC and how I used to get upset that a lot of Editors didn’t even know what we did to make the books complete. I mean, seriously, they didn’t. They would say it was magic. But, as you know, it wasn’t. It was hard work. It’s hard work making these frackin’ books. We do it cause we love it, but man, there are easier professions, we don’t go into comics saying, “this will be easy, I’ll give it a shot”. I think all my years of experience has taught me that being an artist is more then just one thing. Every aspect of making a comic, or if I talk about my job as a financial designer, a pitch book or conference presentation, requires knowing art, design, composition, typography, style guides, color, storytelling, pacing, technical skill, time management, businesses skills, marketing, self promotion. It’s pretty crazy actually. But at DC, or AfterShock, I feel I can take on any job. For example, lettering. Am I as good as Jared or Pat, or Taylor? You? No, no way, but I’ve been there since hand lettering days and the beginning and evolution of digital lettering, and was trained by the best of both. Working with Todd Klein and Clem Robins, Rob Leigh, Comicraft and Nick Napolitano back in the day, at DC. I love lettering, but it’s really hard and there is a lot of competition now, as well. I’ve never been it for the recognition or anything, I think you know that about me, considering we were basically ghost artists and letterers when we were in Pre-Press. It was always about making great books.
To me though, it’s not just about lettering. I love lettering a book, yes, but I also want to do it’s design. I want to do its logo. I want to do its Production. All of it. (I secretly want to do its art, but so far that is one thing that has eluded me, unfortunately). Point being is, I think we are like Liam Nielsen; we have a certain set of skills…hahaha.
Right now, because of that competition and a real big talent pool, honestly, I’m finding it so much harder to find lettering work. Because I’m not as well known, because I’m not the best, or don’t promote myself as others do, whatever it may be, I find lettering jobs hard to come by now. Even at DC where I’ve worked for 19 years (that one year off). Part of it is because most of the top letterers are just so amazing at it, and deserving so, get the higher profile gigs. All the people I mentioned, and more, are just killing it right now. Which is fine. Do I wish I could have more lettering gigs, or at least have my choice of a title or two, be sought after or requested by? Sure. I would like to work on one or two really high profile books at some point in my career again, yeah. But on the other hand, I’m fine with my place in the industry. I am content with just getting consistent work and producing top quality work quickly and efficiently. I’ve built up my reputation with the people who know me and that is what I am most proud of. That is what has led me to AfterShock actually. Since I fell in with AfterShock, I’ve been extremely happy with doing more Design and Book Production for them. Many people may not know, but I’ve been working on some really awesome books with AfterShock, like Animosity, Jimmy’s Bastards, Dark Ark and more. I also do the design for AfterShock’s Diamond Previews listing every month. It’s fantastic.
Lastly, i wanted to mention that I’m working on a Sci-Fi book for Antarctic Press and it’s exactly up my alley and I’m having a blast with it. As I get older, I’m trying to get to a point where I’m picking my own projects to work on, or just working on projects that I feel I want to work on or am a good fit for. I look at you for example and I see you working on some of my favorite books right now. I mean, Descender, DAMN dude, sooooo good. Gideon Falls? Damn. And I see others working on books like Isola or Low, Black Science, Batman, Southern Bastards, and Curse of the White Knight, I hope one day I get to work on a book or two like that. If not, so be it, I’ll ALWAYS do my best on the book that is in front of me, for sure. But I’m also an artist and a comic book lover and I know the books I love and would love to work on.
How did you end up designing for Aftershock? Is it difficult to design for a company while doing it from your home studio?
Two words. One person. Mike Marts. When I left DC Comics in 2013, I bugged Mike for months leading up to the date I could return to work for DC after their one year policy. He was still the head of the bat office then. He left DC, but kind of kept his promise and got me lettering work on Batman and Robin Eternal on his way out. After he left, I kept in touch. He finally let me letter an AfterShock book, called The Normals. It was a mini-series, and I had a blast doing it. Great book, please check it out if you haven’t read it. It got optioned for a movie, recently, too. Anyway, I asked for more lettering work but he asked if I would be up to designing a special one-shot book for Animosity. It was a who’s who type book and I would have free rein to design it from scratch. It was called “World of Animosity” and I’m still super proud of it. After the success of that book, he gave me their Diamond Previews Catalogue Section to design and I worked on that which led me to doing the trade collections and now their whole collections production and book design. I would be remiss at this point to mention that the incredible John J. Hill was AfterShock’s designer before me and I still use a lot of his designs. He is so brilliant and one of the most amazing designers out there. I took up where John left off at AfterShock and honestly I’m just trying to not mess it up too much. Mike Marts continues to push me to do more and thats been great. Mike and I have a great relationship and we trust each other. That is key. i think honesty is very important in this industry. I don’t like being messed with. I just don’t have time for it. Just tell me how it is, what you want and when you want it by and I’ll do the best I can do. Thats my guarantee. Mike understands that and I think why we’ve been working together for so long. I know what he wants and he knows what I’m cable of, so it works. I think you understand that a lot, too, Steve. Once you build a trust with someone, you become they’re go-to-guy. My hope is that if I always give something my best effort, that it shows in my work. I let the work do the talking, and hope theres give me a chance based on that.
I love designing for AfterShock and we continue to get better. If you are not checking out they’re books, you are really missing out. I recommend the hard covers of Baby Teeth Year One (lettered by Taylor, by-the-way), Animosity Year One and Year Two, Jimmy’s Bastards (I think some of my best work is in this book, where I did this really cool sketchbook section in the back design pages), and the soon to come out Rough Riders complete collection (lettered by Sal).
Being that it's Halloween, what's your favorite movie/book Halloweenie-thing to do this time of year?
Ah, yeah…Hmmm. I’m not the biggest Halloween fan, honestly. I was really good at costumes when I was little, but I don’t get that into it that much anymore. I wish I could carve awesome pumpkins like I see online, but I don’t like getting messy and it’s really frustrating to me. I do like to watch holiday centric movies in general, so I’ll always watch my favorite movie respective of that holiday. For Halloween, it is the movie Halloween. The original 1978 movie. It has always been a favorite of mine. I was never a fan of Jason movies or Nightmare on Elm Streets, in fact those scare the bejeezus out of me. Straight up horror movies are tough for me to watch. The Shinning and the new IT movies are awesome, but they’re not Halloween specific though, are they? Really, I’m just ready to start new traditions with my boys though. I’m psyched for that. So whatever new traditions they want to do, I’ll adapt, for sure.
I ask everyone I interview…If you could only give one piece of advice, be it for lettering, or life, what would it be?
Been looking forward to this question actually, and I think I set it up earlier when I was talking about the fact that I still work what is essentially two full time jobs. I also have a 8 year old and a two old, so I’m freakin’ exhausted, lol. It’s really all about what you feel you can handle. I know by now what I can handle. I work 5 days a week at my full time job, get home about 7pm. Eat quickly, put my 2 year in the bath and then to bed. Then I get to work on my comic jobs. I work from about 9pm until I finish. Sometimes that is at 12am, sometimes 2am. Then I do it all again the next day. I can handle that. I’ve been doing it for years. But I gotta be careful because sometimes I do get run down. Sometimes I do say, “you know, I just want to come home and watch a movie, or play video games”. I am a workaholic and I’m still working on that. I don’t really want to be someone who works all the time. I’m getting older now, that is getting harder to do. It’s not really healthy either. Even though I love comics, and will always make comic books for someone or just for myself (working on my own stuff always but its hard to find time for it), I do realize there will come a time when that model for me is not sustainable anymore. But until that happens, I do a pretty damn good job of managing my time and I know my limits. I still spend the weekends with my family and kids and only really work when the kids are finally asleep. I am a huge night owl and usually always get a 2nd or 3rd wind somehow, someway. I get everything done I need to get done. Work first, then play has has always been my m.o. since I was a child. I don’t think I have ever missed a deadline, for 19-20 years I’ve been working. In Comics or in Finance. Hah. In other words, I’ll keep doing what I do until I can’t do it anymore.
For other people, you have to find out what you are capable of. Find your ideal schedule, your ideal workflow. And know your limits. Also remember that people are relying on you, and you have to come through for them, and always do the best possible job you can do. Will I ever letter like Dave Sim (my favorite)? No, but I know I’ll give 110% to any job I take on. I think being reliable, being professional, courteous, and honest and up-front is so important. I pride myself on treating people with respect and
In closing I do want to say that what’s best for me is not what is best for everyone else, or even anyone else. I found that comics needed to be side job for me. I wanted to have a family, I wanted a house, I wanted money and give my kids things I didn’t have when I grew up. I feel if I stayed in the comic industry I wouldn’t be able to do those things. So I was lucky in the sense that I got to work my dream job for 13 years, and I even though I “left”, I still get to do what I love. I have an incredible day time job that takes care of me and my family, and yet I still get to make comics too. I am able to have the best of both worlds right now.
I’ll never knock anyone’s idea of how to make it in this world, but for me, it became clear that comics alone wouldn’t cut it. Somehow, someway, I am to make that work. A lot of the time I have no idea how I do it all. I really don’t. I surprise myself. I don’t how long I’ll be able to keep that up, but for now, I’m in a really great place. However you do it though, make sure you put your blood, sweat and tears into it, because to me, thats what really matters. Why bother if you don’t do that? If you don’t love what you do, as hard as it is sometimes, still give your all. Then at least you can proud of what you do and say, yeah, I gave it my all. If you have a bad day, wake up the next day saying “today is gonna be AWESOME! I’m gonna kill it!” If that doesn’t happen, so what, tomorrow is another day to try all over again. You can never go wrong with that approach in my eyes.
Lastly, find time for things you love. Life’s too short to talk about things that you don’t like or don’t enjoy. It’s why you don’t see me online as much as others. Know why? Because I’m working, for one, I don’t have time for non-sense and silly arguments. But the free time that I have is spent reading, playing with my kids, playing video games, going outside, watching sports and swimming. Take out the negativity in your life, because there are so many things to do in life and to enjoy!
You can find Corey at these haunts:
Twitter: @CjB_Producions
Facebook: CjB Productions
Art Portfolio: https://www.flickr.com/photos/cjb-productions/sets